I have a 1999 1867cc non turbo diesel xsara which has become terrible to start. The heater plugs and relay are fine as are the filters, it has a new battery which turns over the engine for ages before it starts. If I start it every few hours there is no problem but if left all day or night it takes ages, pumping the priming pump seems to have no effect nor does spraying easystart into the air intake has anyone any ideas?

erroll brown, January 2008

citreon xsara 20 hdi runs fine while cold but when warm starts to give the impression its running out of fuel it only does it for a second or so each time it happens but is getting more frequent any ideas many thanks

dean, October 2012

hi jst put a citreon xsara engine in my peugeot partner van the pump on the xsara engine is a lucas and the pump on the partner is bosch when i plug it in it beeps and the imobilser flashers on dash but when u plug the bosch pump in it doesnt do it how can i get around this ive been told somethin to do with the solidnoid on he pump and to take a spring out the pump but u cant cut it out please help

craig, July 2012

i have a suzuki vatara 2.0 td, i have 2 siezed diesel injectors tried everything to remove them but cant, is there any way i can do a repair on the injectors without taken them out, i want to sell the car, many thanks

millersm, August 2009

No success yet?? Perhaps you have poor compression?

Mrg4it, April 2009

Hello again I located the capsule and cable etc. When the engine was cold the cable was still slack and I don't think it was operating correctly - as you suggested. I have lubricated and adjusted the cable to what I believe the settings should be - there is about 9MM of movement between the stops. When cold the arm now touches one limit - making the setting right for cold and when warm it reaches the other side of the limiter. I will see how it starts in the morning!
Thank you and all the best
Erroll

erroll brown, March 2008

Hi everyone and thanks for your help. Sorry I haven't responded sooner but I hadn't looked again at the site until today. I have now replaced all the run off pipes, thought it was cured until next morning when I found that the problem was exactly the same! Now I have read the advice about the cold start capsule etc I'll have a go at that next and let you know how I get on. Thanks again for your help.
Errol

Erroll Brown, March 2008

I think he must have given up with it as he hasn't reported back :-(

Tel, March 2008

Tyr checking the cold start capsule and cable link.

Capewrath, March 2008

Have you checked the cold start cable/capsule is operating to give the proper injkection pump setting for a cold start? It is at the back of the pump and has a bowden cable link to the capsule which is screwed into the cylinder block where it gets its heat to operate the cable.

MrG4IT, March 2008

Have you checked the cold start cable/capsule is operating to give the proper injkection pump setting for a cold start? It is at the back of the pump and has a bowden cable link to the capsule which is screwed into the cylinder block where it gets its heat to operate the cable.

MrG4IT, March 2008

Erroll,
Any progress yet?

Tel, March 2008

Hi Erroll,
Well if you have tried a different primer pump & filter housing & the problem was still the same I think you have to rule that out....although you should never assume or overlook the obvious with a problem like this.
Its also wise to only ever change 1 thing at a time so if the problem stops you know what was causing it.

Sorry....I think I cause a little confusion by calling the injection pump the fuel pump....I meant to say injection pump.

This injection pump has the stop solenoid on it. I don't think you will be able to gain access to the solenoid as I believe the manufacture fits a very strong steel shroud around it....this is part of the anti-theft immobilisation system....I think it's impossible to remove the shroud without damaging it.
I don't believe the pump itself is coded to the car but the solenoid will not get its power feed unless the correct chipped key, or if your car has a keypad immobiliser, the correct code is entered…this is why the strong steel shroud is fitted around it, to stop anyone simply introducing a new 12 volt feed to the solenoid!

I suppose your problem could be the injection pump but before you go changing it you really do need to have checked every other possibility.

Your next step is to remove the manifold & do the leak off pipes to see if that helps then you can rule that one out.

The cold will tend to make it worse....diesels don’t like the cold when it comes to starting....& if you have an air leak you will have to turn the engine for a while just to get the diesel to the injectors before it will attempt to start.


I have known leaks on diesel systems so small that no diesel was leaking however it was enough to let air in & cause poor starting …..I can recall one incident where at his wits end after replacing just about everything on the pre heating side & the injection side the guy bought a brand new injection pump for his Vauxhall Vectra… (£700 rings a bell) which still didn’t cure the problem….the problem was eventually found to be an air leak in the fuel pipe supplying the pump….the pipe had been rubbing on the bodywork & scuffed through a little….the air was getting in but no diesel was getting out as the pipe was nice & dry…the pipe was replaced & the poor starting disappeared!

Get them leak off pipes changed as soon as you have a chance….& let me know the result.

Regards.



PS.

Here’s a couple of forums that may be of interest to you….I frequent them from time to time ;-)

http://www.frenchcarforum.co.uk/forum/

A good forum with some very knowledgeable members.
The forum is sometimes down & a little slow due to recent changes but just keep trying & you will get on eventually.



http://www.gsfcarparts.com/forum/default.asp

Sometimes not a busy forum so you may not get an answer to any questions quickly.


https://secure.gsfcarparts.com/shop/

A good place for parts for Citroen's at decent prices….I have always had very good service from my local branch.

Tel, February 2008

Hi Tel and thanks again. The problem has got steadily worse over the past three months. After checking the plugs etc I eventually bought a new battery which helped for a while. The primer pump and filter housing are all in one on this car and I have even tried bypassing them by fitting a ford one as a temporary measure but it was just the same so I put it back to standard. This model doesn't have a fuel pump it relies on the injector pump I wonder if this is at fault? but understand that they are coded or chipped and can't easily be replaced. I have checked the fuel lines from the tank and they seen ok I can't get at the run off pipes without taking the manifold off which I will do when I have some time and daylight. The problem is certainly far worse at the moment with the cold weather. I have been charging the battery and connecting a spare with jump leads in order to get it to go!
Thanks again
Erroll.

erroll brown, February 2008

Any developments with this problem??

Tel, February 2008

Hi Errol,
so you know for sure that the plugs are ok, that’s a good start…no pun intended ;-)

On your car (1.9 D) I believe the relay feeds power to the plugs for about 15 seconds. As long as there is power to the glow plug link wire for this time when the ignition is switched on the relay is working as it should, I suppose it could be an intermittent fault but they are normally quite a reliable thing.

I don’t know of any sensors that would cause the relay / plugs not to function so we’ll rule that one out.

There is the stop solenoid on the fuel pump…it has been know for these to have an intermittent fault so checking this & the wire that goes to it may be a good idea. You should be able to hear or feel it click when the ignition is switched on…get someone to switch the ignition on & off for you while you listen to see if it is operating each time the ignition is switched on.
The solenoid stops the engine by stopping the diesel flow….so I don’t think this is your problem as you are getting a bit of smoke (unburnt Diesel) when the engine starts!

Other than that I think you have covered all the electrical side of the starting.

I would now start to look for an air leak on the fuel side as this can cause the symptoms you are suffering.

Has the bad starting just started to happen?

Has the fuel filter been recently changed?

On the fuel filter housing there is a little drain off point at the front near the bottom of the housing…make sure this is tight.

Check / replace the leak off pipes…the little rubber pipes that link each injector…these are notorious for leaking air into the system as they harden over time.
The leak off pipework starts at the pump then goes to the first injector, then there is a small link to the 2nd injector etc etc …on the last injector nearest the gearbox there will be a blank make sure this is on & if renewing the pipes replace the blank also.

The priming bulb has a none return valve built into it & these can sometimes fail.

Try again pumping the priming bulb before you attempt to start the engine...but this time put the ignition on first to open the stop solenoid...pump the bulb until it it feels firm :-0 ...you will then have to switch off the ignition & turn it back on to restart the glow plug heating period before attempting to start the engine.

Let me know how you get on.

Regards,

Tel, February 2008

Thanks again for your help Tel. I have sparked all the plugs and had them out to test on a battery and they all work fine. I wonder if it is worth replacing the relay anyway? I don't know if there are any sensors anywhere etc that might be operating sporadically and stopping the engine firing, as I have used easystart and this makes no difference. Sometimes it starts, even in a morning without a problem. Cheers.

erroll brown, February 2008

Hi,
If I’m understanding you correctly you have tested for voltage on the heater plug link wire…the wire that goes from plug to plug.

You will get a voltage reading here if the relay is working as there is a thick wire that comes from the relay to one of the plugs…then the the link wire distributes the voltage to each plug.

However testing the voltage here won’t tell you if the plugs are ok!

The way I test the heater plugs without removing them is to remove the little nuts from the terminals of the plugs & then remove the link wire & the thick wire from the relay.

(The thick wire from the relay will go live if the ignition is turned on, so make sure the ignition is off & if you are likely to turn it on keep this thick wire away from anything metal on the engine (tape it up)…& don’t forget to replace this wire when you replace the link wire!)

Then get a length of wire, anything will do speaker wire etc., that will reach from the + (positive) of the battery to the heater plugs.
With one end of the wire on the + of the battery touch the other end of the wire momentarily onto the terminal of each heater plug in turn . As you do this you should get a spark from the wire touching the terminal….if there’s a spark the plug is ok ….if not its broken.

Don’t keep the wire on the plug for any length of time as it may melt if its only thin wire!

Note….to get a spark using the method above the – (negative) terminal of the battery must be connected. I mention this as a lot of people remove the – terminal from the battery when ever they work on the engine.

The smoke when the engine starts will be the unburnt diesel that has been injected while the engine has been turning over, so this is nothing to worry about & happens when you have to turn the engine over for a while to get it to start.

Let me know how you get on.

Regards.

Tel, February 2008

Thank you for responding. I have tested the heater plugs for operating when voltage is applied and tested the relay by checking the output when it is live and that it turns off afer the required time, at the relay output and at the plug connections. I don't know if there is another check for the relay? When it does fire up - it smokes to start with as if the heater plugs have not been working - but from my checks they seem to be. Thanks again.

Erroll

erroll brown, February 2008

Are you sure your heater plugs / relay are ok as your symptoms point to these.

How did you check the plugs / relay?

The engine starts ok every few hours as there will still be heat in the engine.

Tel., February 2008