i do apologise for asking this question previously and then "adding" to it, thus it was not an unanswered question!

i am therefore posting a link to my original question here:
http://www.howtomendit.com/answers.php?id=405798

and hope someone will take the trouble to answer it - many thanks

MickeyT, March 2011

and peccavi said "Let there be light"

AND THERE WAS LIGHT

thanks also to MickeyT for that bit of ingenuity you were talking about - i figured it didnt matter too much about the live in and outs so i stuck one "loop" in each end and the switch live doubled up with the most convenient socket!

it's obvious when you know, but the tendency is to think you need a positive and a negative, whereas in fact you just connect the blacks! Once you get your head round the idea of separate non-connecting live wires it's a doddle!

MickeyT, March 2011

The wires loop from light to light - ceiling rose to ceiling rose. There will be a cable coming in - a cable going out and another cable going off to the light switch - unless its the last rose in the chain - then only two cables.

In the UK Older wiring is Red & Black - New Euro colours are Brown & Blue.

This link shows a ceiling rose in Euro Colours with three cables

http://www.flameport.com/electric/lighting_circuits/lighting_ceiling_rose_looped.cs4

This link the older colours

http://www.flameport.com/electric/lighting_circuits/lighting_ceiling_rose_other_colours.cs4

Notice that the Permanent Live connection does not go directly to the light - Just In & Out & to the Switch

Notice that the Switched Live to turn the light on and off is on a wire that has the look of a neutral about it - but it isn't - when the switch is set to On this wire is Live. It should have a Red or Brown Sleeve on it as an indication that it's switched live.

At the ceiling - somewhere in the void you will need Four connections.

Permanent live (3 wires - In - Out - and to Switch)
Switched Live (2 wires - From switch and to Lamp)
Neutral (3 wires - In - Out - and from Lamp)
Earth (4 wires - one from each cable and one for the light fitting if required)

If you're doing away with the ceiling rose you will have to use a terminal block to get the four connections.

If switched live is not identified in some way then this will present you with a problem.

Permanent live wires are all joined together and to Nothing Else - there will be no connection for these 3 wires on your new light fitting - you will need to organise this connection through your own ingenuity.

Take care - Good luck...

Peccavi, March 2011