Dear All,
I usually answer questions but require advice - sisters boiler situated in garage not working - bruv goes around & spends afternoon in freezing garage - topped up system from 0(she hasnt had it serviced for at least 3 years-so not surprised) to 1.5bar to get things going/bleed air through rads/replace batts in digi thermo/boiler didnt fire/noticed condensate pipe frozen/thawed that out/hot water working fine/Blue light on constantly/CH comes on for short time (2mins)as temp on display gets to approx 60 before stops/this keeps repeating/is it possible that part of CH system can be frozen and therefore not circulating?(think some pipes are buried in concrete floor)/if so will it right itself as CH comes on for 2mins say every so often/other than that i'm at a loss.thanks

eddie, January 2010

The best way of fixing this is to install some trace heating along the condense pipe. I bought one from a company on line - cost me little over £10 and have had no more problems.

Go to www.tracesolve.co.uk and have a look - think they also sell on ebay.

Jonny the fish, January 2011

Give the lads at cathedral heating a call on 0191 549 9641 they have a cracking gadget called freeze ease it will stop the problem happening again only £30

Pete Mc, December 2010

SHUT OFF BOILER FIRST OF ALL. Then take off front case and release control panel - 2 screws either side -this then folds down .On left of boiler you will see a small plastic see through reservoir containing the safety syphon .Loosen off the plastic nut at the bottom where the condensate pipe is located and free up. Put a towel or plat container underneath if you are concerned about leakage....there shoukld be very little. Have a syringe or narrow funnel handy and pour a little antifreeze into the pipe. Leave for a while for the stuff to penetrate and this should not only clear the pipe but lubricate the sustem somewhat (if only until the cold weather subsides a little). I have done this twicw this Winter and although it is quite fidly to work in this confined space,the task is quite simple and saves you waiting for the engineer.
There must be a way of preventing this long term.....perhaps the plumbing world can come up with a ready insolated condensate pipe or a heated one (like a car windscreen?!).

dm williams DIY Challenges, February 2010

re-reading ur email nic, id already removed most of condensate pipe after thawing out as i knew it would be problematic again - i removed all the horizontal section - leaving just the vertical part - this can be reconnected later when warmer/permanent mod with bigger pipe - you'll prob have to do the central heat boost button at least two times in as many hours before system sorts it self out if not 3 times - regards ed

eddie, January 2010

sorry nic, not been around - hope ur sorted now its a bit warmer- regards
ed

eddie, January 2010

thanks for all this advice, it has helped, we have been boiling kettles all day. have managed to get our worcester greenstar going for 40 mins then goes off, getting to the point of taking the external condensate pipe off. any thoughts?

nic, January 2010

its good to spend some quality time with the other halfs!what relief u both must have had when the old boiler fired up!well glad it all came back on again -
the siphon fill programme is common and normal for whats happened.keeping the heat on i would say is a good idea but not a failsafe option as it can still freeze up again - not much condensate gets released in ch mode - as it be working at 1/4 power when temp reached - when u have shower in morning-boilers at full power and the condensate will increase - and everything could go as before (this will probably happen to the first one in the shower if boiler fed so be warned!)and youll have to do same again but might not be as bad as previous if outside temp a bit better-when the dust settles-well,snow and freeze over - when u get boiler serviced get pipe increased if its less than 32mm.or get husband to b&q it and do it when safe to do so
fingers crossed-
btw lag the pipe in meantime/increase clearance between base of pipe and drain if small

eddie, January 2010

My husband and I have just spent the last 2 and a half hours
+ boiling water pouring it over the pipe outside
+ Keeping a hot water bottle on the pipe under the boiler
+ Putting a big heater in front on the boiler

Have only just managed to get the boiler back on. Had to reset but hot water is fine. Pressure did drop considerably when we turned the heating on but it's doing some 'Siphon-fill programme' for about 15mins. Radiators are heating up now too.

We will leave the heating on over night but I am concerned they could freeze again in the morning.

Funny thing is we thought about leaving the heating on low all day but thought it was a waste. Would this have prevented the pipe from freezing?

It's a quick fix but fingers crossed it's solved it, at least for the time being!

Thanks for your tips.

S M, January 2010

by the way - putting hot water bottles on would be a long drawn out process - kettles of hot water pored on pipe working along is a bit quicker - i originally propped hair dryer with funnel to concentrate on pipe and worked along - did this while having a few fags so wasnt too worried about time- while u doing this give the pipe a few good knocks with small stick or big one - to get ice within to break - id cleared about 3m length within 10mins and it was prob clear - but then took this length of pipe off as the freeze is set to continue - make sure u pour hot water right upto the exit point from boiler if there is a bend /right angled connector there

eddie, January 2010

what boiler peter?if its the cdi 40 or similar worcester boiler what is fault code displayed?note there is another post later for the service engineers manual with fault codes and diagnosis.
if it is the above and u have found that ur condensate blocked i would have thought it would have defrosted with 3 hours of hot water applied (what diameter is it this pipe approx?)- firstly do as b said - hold central heating boost button in for 10 secs and see what happens - come back and tell us how u get on - after alls well - depending on ur confidence i decided to remove most of condensate pipe as it was long and horizontal-to replace u can always replace larger one when its a bit warmer or now if ur brave enuff - 1 1/4 inch advised ie 32mm)
is ur boiler displaying the symptons i had - hot water ok?then do as b said hold in the central heating boost button for 10secs and see what happens
eddie
btw i switched boiler to on position on the receiver to keep things going until we get round to sorting the programmer/stat out
regards

eddie, January 2010

Mine is lagged and the temp. outside NOW is -1 but the damn Worcester Bosch boiler will not work. I am trying drastic hot water as a last resort...any helpful advice considered as three hours of hot water bottles outside is not fun...

Peter Cold, January 2010

As a by the by - i think i fell foul of this and for info when replacing batts in the Worcester T45 timer :-

Read operating manual for timer as it may have a procedure for the time/order of how the batteries are to be removed/replaced and keeping programme info in memory preventing loss of info and reset of receiver on boiler

I put that on prev answer

Regards
ed

eddie, January 2010

Thanks b, It's the Worcester Digistat T45 - i've googled and the manual found here:-

http://www.worcester-bosch.co.uk/cache/file/135/24-hour-digistat-instructions.pdf

Having read through it(sis u do the same)think we can try out and see where we get to. Looks pretty straightforward (famous last words!)

For info - boiler worked throughout the night - good news - when shower run this morning the system went down - checked the condensate pipe and u guessed it - it had frozen up again (-8 deg last night)- went through procedures as before and system restored again -

for info Spoke to our Service Engineer - and was advised that in hot water mode the boiler will be working at full output so the more condensate whereas in norm central heat this will be much less.

Interesting to know that as a gas installer they are not allowed as such to defrost condensate with hot water for quick fix - but required to address problem - v good practice - so will be increasing the 15mm unlagged pipe that was not installed at a downward angle through wall with larger dia - 1 1/4 inch as advised.

Phew! there must be a lot of condensate pipes freezing up at the moment.

Thanks again b, service gonna be carried out next week.

Hope anyone keeping track of thread has found helpful.

Think this site - as good as it is - requires a FAQ section - with boiler types and common faults / answers. Think we've advised on about 20 now - and its the same old - but v interesting to read questions/answers on others too.
Regards and thanks v much

eddie

eddie, January 2010

what make and model is the timer programer/stat
it sounds like it has lost contact with the boiler planel

b, January 2010

thanks b, holding the button in for 10secs did get the system running-heat to all rads -brilliant news as this removes concern about pump being defective(read elsewhere)this continued for the 15min - system now doing the siphon programme - and sis will let us know in morn if alls running - (programme setting to 'on' on the boiler as possible no communication between wireless and receiver - even though batts replaced - will see tomorrow if theres a reset button to it when we see it - have read elsewhere about reset to receiver in boiler - again we'll see tomorrow).
Thanks for additional advice about purging air out of system - assume you do this if sys stubborn with air in as opposed to selecting Air Purge Mode in the first service level?(this from the manual for engineers)

Will post tomorrow how its going - sisters happy -having boiler serviced tomorrow - helps us/eng that we've got it going
Regards eddie

eddie, January 2010

if it is air in the system and ive had this
the best way to purge the system is to close both rad
valve on the biggest rad you have. drain that rad into
a paint tray and bucket and take the bleed screw out. then presurise the boiler to
around 2 bar then open one valve on the rad fully
this will fire any air stuck in the pipes out
then do the same on the other rad valve.
i had to do this today to get some rads working after a drain down

b, January 2010

Thanks again b,
I've just finished a bit more research and your recommendations look pretty damn good - to get the boiler going for 15mins would good - there probably is air in sys / heat exchanger as there was no pressure in sys when i first got to it -so will purge if required - and the check whether the programmer / stat too might worth a check too as i wasnt sure whether they were communicating - (note to sis who's keeping check on this thread - do the above when u get home) will keep you /anyone else posted as we are having boiler looked at / serviced tomorrow regards eddie

eddie, January 2010

if you hold the bottom left hand button in for 10 seconds
this will over ride all other settings, times and room stats
the burner should stay in for 15 min or until you press the button again
if not there may be air in the heat exchanger
if you have a wireless programer/stat is the antener
symbol on the boiler panel blinking
if so its lost contact with the programer/stat

b, January 2010

thanks b, yes it does - but reading service manual for engineers it appears this is to set various parameters to system - not sure if this is what to do/what paramters to change - possibly max heat to rads eg 100 (the boiler will switch off in approx 2mins when temp on boiler reaches approx 60) or to increase pump pressure to 100% - but think that this is standard unless changed. have u used this boost button in circumstances we have here?if so what parameters did u look at/change? - im just wondering if the pipes are frozen ground floor and its not circulating because of this - waiting to hear if any change from yesterday where ive asked sister to use fan heater on the pipes closest to boiler at ground level to see if we can get thaw out assuming pipes frozen within - thanks eddie

eddie, January 2010

does it have a cental heating boost button on it

b, January 2010

thanks erj -i might have to post another question in regards to the pipe layout as the rads which are getting a bit of heat - ie 2 mins worth - are those on the first floor and none on the ground floor - where ive been advised that the feeder rad is the rad that is closest to boiler on the ground floor - there def is no heat getting to that one - and this could have buried pipe in the floor - but i think during some rad mods the system this feeder rad could have been compromised?sister will have to wait and see if sys 'defrosts' - thanks for advice and if anyone else got any further ideas would be good to hear too - regards

eddie, January 2010

boiler is giving hot water so boiler sounds ok.
Are any of the rads heating up?
Could be frozen, has the house been un heated for a while?
If the flow is heating up some water is getting round. if not sounds frozen.
Leave on and hope it unfrezezs OK.

erj, January 2010