Bungalow: Hot water system Grundfos circulation pump failed suddenly. [not c/heating one].
Q: 1 Is it possible for one to 'sludge up' like the central heating ones do?.
Q:2 Is their equipment available that would tell a plumber or heating engineer that the pump is sludged up without having to remove it?. This is what I was told when claiming against insurance that they won't pay out because the pump is sludged up. Water out of all tank fed taps is clean very clean.
somehow I don't think so as far as sludge goes, If a pump fails suddenly I would say that it could be electrical fault. If it was furred up with lime scale then I would assume it would slowly fail as the lime gets thicker. It seem weird the taps in shower room and bathroom next to one another are ok [hotwater tank in shower room] but the kitchen which is approx 20mt away [hence the pump] delivery of hot is slow and if I was on a meter would cost a fortune.

Dusty1, July 2007

It's me who should say sorry Tony I have double checked pulled everything out of the airing cupboard and found it is not a central heating control panel but a junction box [square one] which is fed from the fused double pole switch above at back of shelf, It seems their is no control panel for the central heating just the wall mounted timer switch next to the boiler.
[all existing when we moved in 3yrs ago].
I never noticed it as 'er in doors covered it with towels etc. Both motorised valves, c/heating pump and the headache pump enters this box. The central heating is working fine it's just this b***y headache pump that seems to have lost it's power. I am now wondering if the previous engineer who was called because the boiler wasn't firing up changed one of the motorised valves and accidently disconnected the hot water circulation pump so this might have been out of action for some time and now i've had a kitchen change notice the water runs slower from hot tap all valves open full.
I do apologize as I read my question and it confused me a bit.
Now I know I've got ammo and can't be conned into thinking it is sludge up as I have been told. The Homeserve team who covers the repairs claimed the engineer had equipment which told him it was sludged up without the need to take off the pump, Hmmmmm! tall story that!!. My late brother was a corgi registered engineer and he never had such equipment. I think the b&@?(!*s are lying so they don't have to change it on the insurance cover. Had a look pump ends clean [pump doesn't look all that old either.
It's a Grundfos 15-50 UPS. TF 110 IP 42 PC9528 Class H
in a box like a spreadsheet are 1/1 (A) 3 0.42 2. 0.28 1. 0.17 then next row P1 (W) 3. 105 2. 70 1. 40 had nose bleed getting this as pump label upside down. If I had half a brain I could have taken a digi picture and turn the camera over to look at label up the right way. You learn as you go!!
colour of headache pump in red the c/heating one is blue.

Many thanks for your time and understanding
Dusty [apart from other names i've just called myself he! he!]

Dusty, July 2007

The only thing I would add is I was not aware grundfos make power pumps

tony, July 2007

Hi Dusty

Sorry about mix up the pump you have isto increase the presure to the taps/outlets and as you say pumps the water from the cylinder and tank,this pump does not get scaled up as most scaling up comes when water is heated and water is already heated in cylinder before it gats to your pump,again no sludge will be in pump as sludge is course bt corrosion in system and there will be none in this side of the pipe work
this pump usually operates on fow switches attached to pump so when water flows through it it turns ontherefore it should not be connected to clock however sometimes people do this so that the pump does not operate at night when people are sleeping thus the sound will not disturb them
as pump works on flow switch there should always be power to pump so if none at present check supply is on and fuse ok
if fuse blown only replace with same size ie 3 or 5 amp if fuse blows again I am afraid new pump required
if you see any corrosion at one or both ends of pump it wound indicate the seals around impellor shaft is broken causing water to leak or it could be the motor has just burnt out
remember always keep pump well vwntilated and the hot water cylinder thermostate thus hot water temperature does not want to exceed 60 th 65 deg otherwise hot water will damage pump
me get upset...How very dare you :-]

tony....tsp heating, July 2007

Sorry Tony don't get upset but have to correct you the pump in question is on the hot water tank outlet pipe to the taps and the water through this pump comes out of the taps--[its the same water [cold ] that feeds into the tank from the large storage tank in loft feeding all cold bath taps as well as toilets and this hot water storage tank.] Lime up I can accept but not sludge.

The pump pushes the water from the tank to the taps. The central heating feed enters and exists the tank to the internal coil on seperate 22mm pipe work. There is now power to h/w pump cable from the control panel so am going to check for a fuse in the control panel where I think it is picking up power only and not connected to timers or anything else.

Dusty, July 2007

from what you say I think you have a two pump system one for heating one for hot water when you turn heating one c/h pump comes on and turn hot water on and h.w pump comes on
water in both pumps is the same so yes both can sludge up or burn out,you can test pump by checking if spindle is turning via front chrome nut and check power supply ,however to check inside pump it has to be removed,
water in these pumps is not the same that comes out taps,
cold water in kitchen sink direct from mains
checks also to check if no power to pump check cylinder thermostate and clock output
please note these systems are not used alot now as when heating and hot water on pumps fight each other and can burn each other out

tony...tsp heating, July 2007

One thing I missed out is the bathroom is fed via the loft so the hot water has to rise from the tank over the loft then drop in to the bathroom and the flow is great. Yet the kitchen feed is under the floor straight to the sink the only rise is up to the sink from floor level about 34ins. I should add it has a pushfit isolation valve which is fully open. The other point the pump is connected to the central heating control box and the wire to the pump has no current when taps on or off. We have the timer control by the boiler on constant to see if that makes any difference but no it hasn't. I am convinced its an electrical fault and not what British Gas say. 1 in the name on posting was an error.

Dusty, July 2007